Consumer law violation

topic posted Sun, April 12, 2009 - 11:16 PM by  Unsubscribed
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You have a TOU that prohibits stalking, flaming, etc.

But you've admitted you don't enforce it and have no intention of enforcing.

However, you don't mention this in your TOU.

That's a violation of just about every deceptive trade practices statute in the nation.

Well, I think there are a few backward states that don't have any general consumer protection statute. But most of your members live in states that do, and California, your home state, does.

Ya either need to enforce the TOU or get rid of it. It is deceptively misleading to consumers to post a TOU that you admittedly have no intention of enforcing.
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  • Re: Consumer law violation

    Sun, April 12, 2009 - 11:53 PM
    Giggle.

    Do you threaten to sue the government every time someone speeds and doesn't get a ticket?

    Wait, why am I feeding a troll? Nevermind.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Consumer law violation

      Mon, April 13, 2009 - 5:44 AM
      "Do you threaten to sue the government every time someone speeds and doesn't get a ticket?

      Wait, why am I feeding a troll? Nevermind."

      ***

      No. For a citizen to bring suit against the government to make the government enforce its criminal laws first requires the citizen to show standing. Standing means that the party to the lawsuit has suffered some harm or wrong or otherwise has a legal interest in the matter, other than just an abstract interest as a citizen. That's a simplified explanation of a rather complex legal concept.

      I don't figure I have standing to sue the government to make it enforce speeding laws. Maybe if the government was ignoring a speeding problem on my street and it was posing a harm to my interests, then I would have standing.

      Back to the subject at hand, any consumer who uses tribe.net's services would have standing to bring an action against tribe.net for an alleged violation of a consumer protection statute. They may or may not have a valid case, but standing would not be hard to show.
  • Re: Consumer law violation

    Mon, April 13, 2009 - 3:12 AM
    Nobody can ever quite be happy about the TOU enforcement. Almost every post upsets someone and has an equally adamant defender. Any action or non-action infuriates one or the other, sometimes both. One person's flame is another person's reasoned argument.

    The TOU only describes the actions Tribe may take under certain circumstances. The actions Tribe does take will fall well within the boundaries provided. This is reasonable and responsible: everyone knows the ground rules and when it is necessary to take action there is no question that action is appropriate.

    The TOU and Code of Conduct impose limitations on Tribe's users but do not and are not intended to create obligations for Tribe. For example, "We may tell you about harmful uses but have no duty to do so" (TOU, Paragraph 4); " we retain the right to cancel or suspend your Service" (CoC, paragraph 4). There is no mention of automatic or universal enforcement nor any obligation or expectation, implied or expressed of enforcement in the TOU or CoC.

    While Tribe retains the right to take action against users who violate the TOU, Tribe is not obligated to do so; just as one may post a "no trespassing" sign to establish the right to prosecute trespassers, doing so does not create an obligation to prosecute the neighbor's kids when they come to get their ball.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Consumer law violation

      Mon, April 13, 2009 - 5:34 AM
      That is a very narrow interpretation of the law.

      The typical website loads its TOU with all kinds of exculpatory language which excuses the website, in its own mind, of any contractual obligations. That is what you have here. Whether that would hold up as a contract is debatable, because it borders on being an illusory contract, but that is a different debate. We've had that contract law debate before, concerning tribe's previous actions of selling annual memberships, canceling the accounts, but not issuing even so much as a prorated refund. We had that discussion in this very tribe, and the concept of an illusory contract went over everyone's head. Most of the members seem to think that whatever you write into your TOU, that's the law. The idea that certain provisions of a contract might not be enforceable is alien to this audience. Oh dear. Whatever.

      But I am now talking about consumer law, not contract law.

      Under certain consumer protection statutes, if you make a representation to the consumer about the quality of a service, or a representation about the rights and obligations contained in a consumer contract, and the representation is false or misleading, you may have a violation of a consumer protection statute.

      The argument that you can't please everyone in your enforcement of TOU is irrelevant. It may well be true, but still irrelevant to the consumer issue. The issue is, you have a Code of Conduct that is contained in your TOU, you state in your TOU that the code of conduct is enforceable, yet you have no intention of enforcing it anymore.

      A reasonable consumer reading the TOU and the Code of Conduct would be lead to believe that the website takes some action to enforce the Code of Conduct. If it was not going to be enforced, the consumer would expect that to be disclosed.

      Posting a code of conduct, and stating that the website might or could unsub people for violating it, when in fact, you have no intention of enforcing the code of conduct, is misleading.
      • Re: Consumer law violation

        Mon, April 13, 2009 - 12:08 PM
        There are certain factual errors in your statement:

        "canceling the accounts, but not issuing even so much as a prorated refund."
        - We (NSA) have generally issued refunds on request. if a paid subscriber was unsubscribed during their paid period, it is our policy to issue a full refund of their last payment and we have done so for those cases where we (NSA) have accepted the cost of making good on USN's commitments, though we do so at our sole discretion. We have restored a number of profiles that were unsubscribed under contentious circumstances and in those cases where the subscriber was a paid member, we have extended their subscription period.

        " yet you have no intention of enforcing it anymore"
        - We (NSA) have never stated anywhere that we have "no intention of enforcing" the TOU or the CoC: to the contrary we have adopted consistent and fair standards for enforcement and we enforce to those standards whenever applicable situations are brought to our attention. We (NSA) have intervened many times to settle disputes and do so on a regular basis. While these standards are stated in more detail elsewhere, in general the rules are that:

        Moderators have the privilege, right, and responsibility to set the tone and standards for their tribes and Tribe will not intervene except at the request of the moderator. Should a user find the tenor of a tribe unacceptable and the moderator unresponsive to their concerns, they are free to leave that tribe or create their own and moderate it to their own standards.

        We encourage users to make use of the privacy tools we offer within the system to mitigate problem users. Where those tools fail, we intervene. Note that occasionally disputes rise to the level of possible criminal behavior and in those cases we work with the victim to engage law enforcement and to preserve evidence which may give the impression that no action has been taken, but rest assured the situation is being actively responded to.

        As the TOU speaks only to those circumstances where Tribe might take action against the user agreeing to the TOU and not at all to actions Tribe might take on behalf of the user against other users, it seems counterintuitive that a person would complain about not being unsubbed in such circumstances as they think they have taken an action that would merit being unsubbed under the terms where we have reserved the right to do so.

        If your intent is to suggest that it would be misleading to a user who feels that another user has, in their opinion, violated the TOU or CoC and that they believe that the other user should therefore be unsubscribed for doing so then, aside from the first user having assumed a vigilante mantle of judge and jury, they might refer to paragraph 16 of the TOU: "Without limiting the foregoing, you specifically acknowledge that Tribe is not liable for the defamatory, offensive, infringing, breaching, fraudulent, or illegal conduct of other users or third parties and that the risk of injury from the foregoing rests entirely with you."
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Consumer law violation

          Mon, April 13, 2009 - 2:53 PM
          My statement about refunds was not a factual error. It reflected tribe's conduct prior to the NSA taking the helm. That was the time frame I was discussing concerning the previous debate on this issue. At the time of that debate, that is what was going on.

          Indeed, since NSA took over, there has been a refund policy, which I applaud.

          As far as the rest of what you say, you doth protest too much. Y'all did say you weren't going to be unsubbing people anymore because it was futile. I read it, so did others, some of whom are complaining bitterly about it and perhaps plotting their complaints as we speak. Y'all said what you said. And the nutcases have been complaining about it.

          Now that the issue is out in the open, you can deal with it and explain to all the nutcases who are constantly threatening lawsuits here on tribe what you really meant by it, and thereby close the door to these kinds of claims.
          • Re: Consumer law violation

            Mon, April 13, 2009 - 6:21 PM
            TOU own SOT!!! LOLS!!!

            you ask before I tell you again, Latest DSM IV Dx of red satan free for you no gf insurance needed!!!: 312.8 with the exacerbate by 291.0, also the 301.81, 312.30

            LOLS!!!

            Longest goodbye! nobody can miss don't go!!! you tribe here long time.all night all day how can we miss what won't go away? you keep say goodbye but back hello!!

            What happen the first this thread you post here last night eveyrone laugh and laugh!!? no fair you erase good LOLS and other of people posting thread!!! We like the first one betters!!! wah wah!!!So bitter taste of word!!! you threaten lawsuit!!! vodka talk big!!!
            You fall on wagon again?!!! Get helmet!!! You extra two week "gitmo" you keep the slip!

            serously now time of stop pain on self and communeity.

            Gitmo sober! you and the aunt beezletub later come back step 8 apologize commiunity for wrong and TRUE BLUE ORANGE DJarums for false accussation and outright lie you spam all around like the explode poop!. You lie caught red hand!!!
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Consumer law violation

              Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:05 PM
              I didn't erase any posts, Ms. Pidgin English.

              The unauthorized biography of Satan, written by TRUE? Is that what you are complaining about having disappeared?

              I loved it. It was outrageous. I am very sorry someone had it deleted. Someone else had it deleted because the hateful parts at the end about other people were beyond the pale. It wasn't deleted on my account. It was high drama.

              They should have just deleted the part about the other people and left up all of TRUE's fantasies about me.

              Someone saved it, just for reference. She put a lot of work into it, you know.
              • Re: Consumer law violation

                Mon, April 13, 2009 - 11:43 PM
                Too hard to edit posts on this platform, and too many complaints about various things from lots of people, so it's gone.
                • Re: Consumer ethics violation

                  Tue, April 14, 2009 - 5:24 AM
                  SOT you play shell game! You lose. bc your heart know your mind. maybe your second thought self-delete and repost of thread show you are grow to be better person. we hope!

                  Tribe.net Help, LOLS!!! okay for the troll to pick on the one or the two and mob cheer!!!! but if the one fight back and the truth come, truth bring the complain by lots and what can a lonely tribe first aid kit do but go by but mob rule.!!! that okay. truth in heart of each.


                  each to choose popular path of run in pack of hate or stand alone in truth but be sure wear mask when you take stand or you next!!!.

                  this place no good for me or love



                  unknownn comic out!!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Consumer ethics violation

                    Tue, April 14, 2009 - 6:57 AM
                    Pidgin English filtered through a third rate Yoda imitation.

                    As for deleting any threads in this tribe, not me. I loved the now deleted fictional biography that TRUE wrote for me. It releaved for all to see just how obsessed she is with me.

                    Ask the TOU Gal, she knows I didn't delete the post. The TOU Gal deleted it, and it wasn't me who requested its deletion.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Consumer law violation

    Mon, April 13, 2009 - 8:12 AM
    Well, anyway, so long for now.

    I will leave you to ponder why I would raise this issue when I have been unsubbed more than any other person in the history of tribe. Am I just being contrary? Is it all part of a conspiracy?

    Take care now, trolls and all.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Consumer law violation

    Tue, April 14, 2009 - 7:02 AM
    By the way, I think the TOU Gal may have been smarter than all of us.

    While she did make a statement some time back suggesting they would no longer spend their time unsubbing trolls (because they just come back anyhow), I think that was just a decoy to get the whiners like you off their backs. For it has come to my attention that they do still in fact unsub people who actually need unsubbing.

    So maybe you outta watch your step!

    Anyhow, this resolves the legal controversey, at least in my opinion. Tribe.net is in the clear. You can cancel those appointments with the personal injury lawyers now, trolls.
    • Re: Consumer law violation

      Tue, April 14, 2009 - 5:48 PM
      satan motto: never end the lie!!! Two different deleted post we speak of here. one the darren suticase delete under troll peer pressure of double standard, other first thread of this matter the red satan sober up think better of.

      thick cheese here! make brocoli soup!!! LOLS!!!

      we now close argument by Add to the Dx of DSM IV12 for the red satan: ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) characterize by strong PL (pathological liar)
      Pervasive pattern of behavior incl the repeated lying,esp as evidence with the multiple of aliases, con for fun and the pleasure.

      tonight casserole and love on my psych nurse husband after we watch a few episode "House"

      okey i see you all another channel one day

      you look for me but no brown bag! i only wear the canvas bag now!!! unknown comic go green!!! LOLS!!! ~~&/

      rsTarget.Close
      rsBEUserRoster.Close
      cnBackEnd.Close


      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Consumer law violation

        Tue, April 14, 2009 - 7:03 PM
        I did not delete any of the threads to which you refer, nor did I request or even suggest that they be deleted.

        I wish they would be restored, as evidence that I am being stalked.
        • Re: Consumer law violation

          Thu, April 16, 2009 - 9:24 AM
          You earthlings and your primitive laws. We have no laws on the Moon, except those which we declare, are our laws. We do what we want to whomever we want at all times, that is our law. I'm transmitting rage

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