http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#feeb8317-fedc-44d7-8837-da09571871ce I love the poetry of William Butler Yeats and The Stolen Child is one of my favorites; both lyrical and poignant. And I like Robert Service as well. Crazy Jane Talks With the Bishop I met the Bishop on the road And much said he and I. 'Those breasts are flat and fallen now, Those veins must soon be dry; Live in a heavenly mansion, Not in some foul sty.' 'Fair and foul are near of kin, And fair needs foul,' I cried. 'My friends are gone, but that's a truth Nor grave nor bed denied, Learned in bodily lowliness And in the heart's pride. 'A woman can be proud and stiff When on love intent; But Love has pitched his mansion in The place of excrement; For nothing can be sole or whole That has not been rent.' by William Butler Yeats Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:01:21 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#feeb8317-fedc-44d7-8837-da09571871ce Mark 2009-06-09T21:01:21Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#cfacf2e7-dbd0-4357-a1e9-1988ddaf0a33 The Stolen Child WHERE dips the rocky highland Of Sleuth Wood in the lake, There lies a leafy island Where flapping herons wake The drowsy water rats; There we've hid our faery vats, Full of berrys And of reddest stolen cherries. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a pixie, hand in hand, For the world's more full of wombats than you can understand. Where the wave of moonlight glosses The dim gray sands with light, Far off by furthest Rosses We foot it all the night, Weaving olden dances Mingling hands and mingling glances Till the moon has taken flight; To and fro we leap And chase the frothy bubbles, While the world is full of troubles And anxious in its sleep. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a pixie, hand in hand, For the world's more full of wookies than you can understand. Where the wandering water gushes From the hills above Glen-Car, In pools among the rushes That scare could bathe a star, We seek for slumbering trout And whispering in their ears Give them unquiet dreams; Leaning softly out From ferns that drop their tears Over the young streams. Come away, O human child! To the waters and the wild With a pixie, hand in hand, For the world's more full of wabbits than you can understand. Away with us he's going, The solemn-eyed: He'll hear no more the lowing Of the calves on the warm hillside Or the kettle on the hob Sing peace into his breast, Or see the brown mice bob Round and round the oatmeal chest. For he comes, the human child, To the waters and the wild With a pixie, hand in hand, For the world's more full of watermelons than he can understand. William Butler Yeats Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:58:40 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#cfacf2e7-dbd0-4357-a1e9-1988ddaf0a33 Sqweegle 2009-06-09T15:58:40Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9cd233b0-626a-4f4d-b099-a6701dcc4f0f Yay Robert Service! I'm probably the only other person here who a) recognized that and b)knows the entirety of The Cremation of Sam McGee by heart--great way to startle people at parties, especially lit people. Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:56:27 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9cd233b0-626a-4f4d-b099-a6701dcc4f0f Shannon 2009-06-09T14:56:27Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#27b607ee-b0e5-41ce-8e9c-75681757f5a0 To Dawson Town came Percy Brown from London on the Thames. A pane of glass was in his eye, and stockings on his stems. Upon the shoulder of his coat a leather pad he wore, To rest his deadly rifle when it wasn't seeking gore; The which it must have often been, for Major Percy Brown, According to his story was a hunter of renown, Who in the Murrumbidgee wilds had stalked the kangaroo And killed the cassowary on the plains of Timbuctoo. And now the Arctic fox he meant to follow to its lair, And it was also his intent to beard the Artic hare... Which facts concerning Major Brown I merely tell because I fain would have you know him for the Nimrod that he was. Now Skipper Grey and Deacon White were sitting in the shack, And sampling of the whisky that pertained to Sheriff Black. Said Skipper Grey: "I want to say a word about this Brown: The piker's sticking out his chest as if he owned the town." Said Sheriff Black: "he has no lack of frigorated cheek; He called himself a Sourdough when he'd just been here a week." Said Deacon White: "Methinks you're right, and so I have a plan By which I hope to prove to-night the mettle of the man. Just meet me where the hooch-bird sings, and though our ways be rude We'll make a proper Sourdough of this Piccadilly dude." Within the Malamute Saloon were gathered all the gang; The fun was fast and furious, and the loud hooch-bird sang. In fact the night's hilarity had almost reached its crown, When into its storm-centre breezed the gallant Major Brown. And at the apparation, whith its glass eye and plus-fours, From fifty alcoholic throats responded fifty roars. With shouts of stark amazement and with whoops of sheer delight, They surged around the stranger, but the first was Deacon White. "We welcome you," he cried aloud, "to this the Great White Land. The Artic Brotherhood is proud to grip you by the hand. Yea, sportsman of the bull-dog breed, from trails of far away, To Yukoners this is indeed a memorable day. Our jubilation to express, vocabularies fail... Boys, hail the Great Cheechako!" And the boys responded: "Hail!" "And now," continued Deacon White to blushing Major Brown, "Behold assembled the eelight and cream of Dawson Town, And one ambition fills their hearts and makes their bosoms glow - They want to make you, honoured sir, a bony feed Sourdough. The same, some say, is one who's seen the Yukon ice go out, But most profound authorities the definition doubt, And to the genial notion of this meeting, Major Brown, A Sourdough is a guy who drinks ... an ice-worm cocktail down." "By Gad!" responded Major Brown, "that's ripping, don't you know. I've always felt I'd like to be a certified Sourdough. And though I haven't any doubt your Winter's awf'ly nice, Mayfair, I fear, may miss me ere the break-up of your ice. Yet (pray excuse my ignorance of matters such as these) A cocktail I can understand - but what's an ice-worm, please?" Said Deacon White: "It is not strange that you should fail to know, Since ice-worms are peculiar to the Mountain of Blue Snow. Within the Polar rim it rears, a solitary peak, And in the smoke of early Spring (a spectacle unique) Like flame it leaps upon the sight and thrills you through and through, For though its cone is piercing white, its base is blazing blue. Yet all is clear as you draw near - for coyley peering out Are hosts and hosts of tiny worms, each indigo of snout. And as no nourishment they find, to keep themselves alive They masticate each other's tails, till just the Tough survive. Yet on this stern and Spartan fare so-rapidly they grow, That some attain six inches by the melting of the snow. Then when the tundra glows to green and nigger heads appear, They burrow down and are not seen until another year." "A toughish yarn," laughed Major Brown, "as well you may admit. I'd like to see this little beast before I swallow it." "'Tis easy done," said Deacon White, "Ho! Barman, haste and bring Us forth some pickled ice-worms of the vintage of last Spring." But sadly still was Barman Bill, then sighed as one bereft: "There's been a run on cocktails, Boss; there ain't an ice-worm left. Yet wait . . . By gosh! it seems to me that some of extra size Were picked and put away to show the scientific guys." Then deeply in a drawer he sought, and there he found a jar, The which with due and proper pride he put upon the bar; And in it, wreathed in queasy rings, or rolled into a ball, A score of grey and greasy things, were drowned in alcohol. Their bellies were a bilious blue, their eyes a bulbous red; Their back were grey, and gross were they, and hideous of head. And when with gusto and a fork the barman speared one out, It must have gone four inches from its tail-tip to its snout. Cried Deacon White with deep delight: "Say, isn't that a beaut?" "I think it is," sniffed Major Brown, "a most disgustin' brute. Its very sight gives me the pip. I'll bet my bally hat, You're only spoofin' me, old chap. You'll never swallow that." "The hell I won't!" said Deacon White. "Hey! Bill, that fellows fine. Fix up four ice-worm cocktails, and just put that wop in mine." So Barman Bill got busy, and with sacerdotal air His art's supreme achievement he proceeded to prepare. His silver cups, like sickle moon, went waving to and fro, And four celestial cocktails soon were shining in a row. And in the starry depths of each, artistically piled, A fat and juicy ice-worm raised its mottled mug and smiled. Then closer pressed the peering crown, suspended was the fun, As Skipper Grey in courteous way said: "Stranger, please take one." But with a gesture of disgust the Major shook his head. "You can't bluff me. You'll never drink that gastly thing," he said. "You'll see all right," said Deacon White, and held his cocktail high, Till its ice-worm seemed to wiggle, and to wink a wicked eye. Then Skipper Grey and Sheriff Black each lifted up a glass, While through the tense and quiet crown a tremor seemed to pass. "Drink, Stranger, drink," boomed Deacon White. "proclaim you're of the best, A doughty Sourdough who has passed the Ice-worm Cocktail Test." And at these words, with all eyes fixed on gaping Major Brown, Like a libation to the gods, each dashed his cocktail down. The Major gasped with horror as the trio smacked their lips. He twiddled at his eye-glass with unsteady finger-tips. Into his starry cocktail with a look of woe he peered, And its ice-worm, to his thinking, mosy incontinently leered. Yet on him were a hundred eyes, though no one spoke aloud, For hushed with expectation was the waiting, watching crowd. The Major's fumbling hand went forth - the gang prepared to cheer; The Major's falt'ring hand went back, the mob prepared to jeer, The Major gripped his gleaming galss and laid it to his lips, And as despairfully he took some nauseated sips, From out its coil of crapulence the ice-worm raised its head, Its muzzle was a murky blue, its eyes a ruby red. And then a roughneck bellowed fourth: "This stiff comes here and struts, As if he bought the blasted North - jest let him show his guts." And with a roar the mob proclaimed: "Cheechako, Major Brown, Reveal that you're of Sourdough stuff, and drink your cocktail down." The Major took another look, then quickly closed his eyes, For even as he raised his glass he felt his gorge arise. Aye, even though his sight was sealed, in fancy he could see That grey and greasy thing that reared and sneered in mockery. Yet roung him ringed the callous crowd - and how they seemed to gloat! It must be done . . . He swallowed hard . . . The brute was at his throat. He choked. . . he gulped . . . Thank God! at last he'd got the horror down. The from the crown went up a roar: "Hooray for Sourdough Brown!" With shouts they raised him shoulder high, and gave a rousing cheer, But though they praised him to the sky the Major did not hear. Amid their demonstrative glee delight he seemed to lack; Indeed it almost seemed that he - was "keeping something back." A clammy sweat was on his brow, and pallid as a sheet: "I feel I must be going now," he'd plaintively repeat. Aye, though with drinks and smokes galore, they tempted him to stay, With sudden bolt he gained the door, and made his get-away. And ere next night his story was the talk of Dawson Town, But gone and reft of glory was the wrathful Major Brown; For that ice-worm (so they told him) of such formidable size Was - a stick of stained spaghetti with two red ink spots for eyes. Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:24:04 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#27b607ee-b0e5-41ce-8e9c-75681757f5a0 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-09T12:24:04Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f65b846a-681d-4ef1-9969-a98b8aee0771 sleeping deeply in my blood it turns my memories to mud and gnaws inside me like a dog whose leg is caught between a log it eats itself until it's free but I'll eat them instead of me Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:26:15 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f65b846a-681d-4ef1-9969-a98b8aee0771 Lokifreign 2009-06-09T09:26:15Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7855572f-f0ca-4174-92fd-484abd7437ca If you go out in the woods today You're sure of a big surprise. If you go out in the woods today You'd better go in disguise. For every bear that ever there was Will gather there for certain, because Today's the day the teddy bears have their picnic. Picnic time for teddy bears, The little teddy bears are having a lovely time today. Watch them, catch them unawares, And see them picnic on their holiday. See them gaily dance about. They love to play and shout. And never have any cares. At six o'clock their mommies and daddies Will take them home to bed Because they're tired little teddy bears. If you go out in the woods today, You'd better not go alone. It's lovely out in the woods today, But safer to stay at home. For every bear that ever there was Will gather there for certain, because Today's the day the teddy bears have their picnic CHORUS Every teddy bear, that's been good Is sure of a treat today There's lots of wonderful things to eat And wonderful games to play Beneath the trees, where nobody sees They'll hide and seek as long as they please Today's the day the teddy bears have their picnic CHORUS Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:53:21 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7855572f-f0ca-4174-92fd-484abd7437ca Shatter 2009-06-09T08:53:21Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4536743a-91e5-4fee-ab42-3b83792beef2 Hah. I'd thought that my Robert Frost quote was a non-sequitur, given the Dead Thread. But it's not: It's a Buck Dancer's Choice, my friend, better take my advice You know all the rules by now and the fire from the ice.... Got some things to talk about here beside the rising tide It's the same story the crow told me It's the only one he know - like the morning sun you come and like the wind you go Ain't no time to hate, barely time to wait Wo-oah, what I want to know, where does the time go? Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:25:44 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4536743a-91e5-4fee-ab42-3b83792beef2 Shannon 2009-06-09T05:25:44Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f3545da0-afd8-4ab9-b2d8-68dc58d114e9 Rajalee is always getting in my business. Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:00:29 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f3545da0-afd8-4ab9-b2d8-68dc58d114e9 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-09T05:00:29Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7bd06e95-d05f-41fd-b615-e4651c72ee57 I was talking to Mark. Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:19:03 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7bd06e95-d05f-41fd-b615-e4651c72ee57 Xiomara 2009-06-09T03:19:03Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e82703dc-6bfb-4572-a76c-7276e91dd7c0 I don't think the non sequitur file comment pertained to you, my sweetheart of the rodeo. Or were you responding to that weirdo, Mark? Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:17:23 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e82703dc-6bfb-4572-a76c-7276e91dd7c0 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-09T03:17:23Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#6b8a4c95-3c13-4b90-884c-6bdb3ac3a599 I was just posting Dead lyrics, not commenting on anything you had to say. Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:47:01 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#6b8a4c95-3c13-4b90-884c-6bdb3ac3a599 Xiomara 2009-06-08T20:47:01Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9bdda657-ca4b-4a61-a212-a81843712df9 File under: non-sequitur. Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:44:56 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9bdda657-ca4b-4a61-a212-a81843712df9 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-08T18:44:56Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3266038a-cef8-4c3b-9966-cd883bf0e04a Yewni, I did not mean to imply tribe lacked either heart or soul; only that sometimes these discussions can ramble in unexpected or aimless directions. Some of these rambles can be trivial, pointless or even sad but they also be edifying or entertaining. I find this discussion both edifying and entertaining and have only the best wishes for you all. The dominant western materialistic culture is another matter... Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:24:53 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3266038a-cef8-4c3b-9966-cd883bf0e04a Mark 2009-06-08T18:24:53Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#42674e2a-db9e-4344-9e2a-cd5a37b472c3 Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart. You just gotta poke around. Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:41:20 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#42674e2a-db9e-4344-9e2a-cd5a37b472c3 Xiomara 2009-06-08T05:41:20Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#dc21d08c-9bba-4601-8365-89601d1cf931 ...Oh, it started out exciting But it ended up ho hum Don't you know we're all just travelers on the road to kingdom come.... Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:03:24 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#dc21d08c-9bba-4601-8365-89601d1cf931 Mark 2009-06-08T05:03:24Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#37e083e9-8477-4b68-90e2-77ad86243b35 SOME say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, 5 I think I know enough of hate To know that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:43:11 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#37e083e9-8477-4b68-90e2-77ad86243b35 Shannon 2009-06-08T04:43:11Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e25bba22-a8db-4093-bf34-95a3b091bf85 You know all the rules by now and the fire from ice. Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:42:27 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e25bba22-a8db-4093-bf34-95a3b091bf85 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-08T03:42:27Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#16d03297-48ac-4d01-ba9a-ffa585a142ea Maybe you'll find direction, Around some corner where it's been waiting to meet you. Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:39:49 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#16d03297-48ac-4d01-ba9a-ffa585a142ea Xiomara 2009-06-06T03:39:49Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#29810043-6506-4198-8068-e78d977d0e72 the one, neverending song. bletch. hee hee. Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:07:07 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#29810043-6506-4198-8068-e78d977d0e72 Flint 2009-06-05T09:07:07Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4d954da1-358e-431b-b846-8c2079e06351 Sugar magnolia, blossoms bloomin', heads all........... (muwahahaha) Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:38:11 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4d954da1-358e-431b-b846-8c2079e06351 : Denisey, Phantom of Delight 2009-06-02T02:38:11Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#08fbca27-ed8f-482a-a8e2-b0f0d7e3e96a Set out runnin but I take my time, a friend of the devil is a friend of mine, If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight. Dammit! Don't get me started on the Dead lyrics. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:11:07 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#08fbca27-ed8f-482a-a8e2-b0f0d7e3e96a Shannon 2009-06-02T02:11:07Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#5c16a548-a148-48d9-9a29-098d55cc3feb There's cocaine? Yum. It will go with the champagne I'm drinking right now. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:05:08 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#5c16a548-a148-48d9-9a29-098d55cc3feb Shannon 2009-06-02T02:05:08Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c9130dd-6c31-4427-bea8-46e05cc27e0d I'm sorry, but there is no solution to the problems of this system. The system itself is defective. Putting a better engineer at the controls of a defective locomotive won't avert the trainwreck. **** Riding that train high on cocaine Casey Jones you better watch your speed trouble ahead trouble behind and you know that notion just crossed my mind Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:53:00 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c9130dd-6c31-4427-bea8-46e05cc27e0d $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-02T01:53:00Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f011918f-c5d9-446e-a000-68ad7ce57341 Right Brain/Left Brain --S Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:33:41 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#f011918f-c5d9-446e-a000-68ad7ce57341 Shatter 2009-06-02T01:33:41Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#a0cadae7-7231-4f98-8ddb-87f41029c1ff >Those are normally very different type of people that do those jobs. Yeah, it is. When I worked with engineers, they hated dealing with people stuff. They kind of hated dealing with people at all when they were working--not because they weren't nice people, but because it was really hard to get focused again, and the problems they were solving required a much different sort of concentration. People stuff requires constant gear-switching, putting yourself emotionally and mentally in somebody else's position (even if that person is angry or loony), and on a typical day several dozen somebody else's, all with different communication styles, outlooks, problems, and degrees of sanity or niceness, and being nice all the time, even if you're not in the mood. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:04:35 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#a0cadae7-7231-4f98-8ddb-87f41029c1ff Shannon 2009-06-02T01:04:35Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e6bf0148-f0ac-4720-802f-925f0332386d Wendy was never much for posting and interacting with the community. She was on the customer service side of Help@tribe. She was most of Darren's time at Tribe. This was one of Darren's many hats: Maintain the system, fix problem, Customer service, customer relations. Those are normally very different type of people that do those jobs. --S Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:55:04 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e6bf0148-f0ac-4720-802f-925f0332386d Shatter 2009-06-02T00:55:04Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#120fb7d0-27ef-4750-9982-5e2accaa3e1a http://www-usr.rider.edu/~suler/psycyber/ Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:46:01 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#120fb7d0-27ef-4750-9982-5e2accaa3e1a $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-02T00:46:01Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#17bccc65-565d-4b96-8f33-92c136750be6 Well, that's the thing. Any kind of job working with people requires a very specific skill-set, even in traditional real-life environments where habits and customary rules of social interaction apply. That fact is often overlooked by people attempting to run online communities in favor of the technical or monetary aspect of things, and places inevitably suffer as a result. And it's a sucky job precisely because the particular skill-set required is undervalued and underpaid. And it really is a much larger problem than tribe. Human snarls have been happening regularly on every open political forum, including major news sites and political blogs. And often, administrators don't bother to deal with it or don't care, because flamewars generate so much traffic, it makes the site look popular (not that revenue is necessarily a concern with tribe at the moment, but it could be someday). Anyway, that's why I was interested to see the post on Daily Kos. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:31:44 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#17bccc65-565d-4b96-8f33-92c136750be6 Shannon 2009-06-02T00:31:44Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3b95f6d5-6986-4c4e-87dd-5affb6cd17f0 God, that poor guy took a whole lot of shit. Was that Wendy's job as well? I remember as being mostly pretty helpful. Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:24:19 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3b95f6d5-6986-4c4e-87dd-5affb6cd17f0 Xiomara 2009-06-02T00:24:19Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#174b68d7-da11-488b-b8ae-df6137641ec3 Remember Walter? Warren? That's pretty much what they did, except they also got stuck playing TOUguy. The social side of tribe started dieing off when we lost Warren. He was a good guy put in a shitty position. --S Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:54:03 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#174b68d7-da11-488b-b8ae-df6137641ec3 Shatter 2009-06-01T23:54:03Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#75a42c05-debb-4a05-92b2-1fad1f2443d0 Better yet, how about a full time therapist, one who specializes in abnormal psychology? I think that is what is called for in this environment. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:34:11 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#75a42c05-debb-4a05-92b2-1fad1f2443d0 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T23:34:11Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#977a61bb-cd5e-461d-8d21-83e72357d4ad How about NSA hires a retired judge? This stuff is very important. No one less than a retired judge is worthy of the job. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:17:39 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#977a61bb-cd5e-461d-8d21-83e72357d4ad $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T23:17:39Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#0a9b347c-2d4c-4b77-9744-781e65fbeaab I'd actually be more inclined to want to see a person with great communication and diplomatic skills and zero history here to take such a position. Tabula Rasa. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:58:20 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#0a9b347c-2d4c-4b77-9744-781e65fbeaab Xiomara 2009-06-01T13:58:20Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#a5cd679a-4ef6-440f-b647-3fbfb3cc8ef4 >Have you got anybody in mind, Shannon? I don't, Craig, sadly. I do think it needs to be an NSA appointment, a paid position (which is going to be a seriously tough sell, although that person could also be responsible for real-world possibly revenue-generating things like subscription management, PR, attracting new people, etc). It should probably not be one of the regular participants here. While there's the requisite investment in the place, there are also certain---habits of interaction that have become ingrained. It should be somebody with a long enough history here to understand some of the social dynamics fairly and impartially. Established online communities may seem transient on the surface, but they have histories. And for longtime participants, those histories have everything to do with how things are now. But the facts are not always visible on the surface, not always available in the public written record. And it would be a rare individual patient, insightful, and impartial enough to understand or discover some of those histories, and settle conflicts accordingly. Communities establishing their own codes can work fine if they are small and have the same goals, level of investment in things working out, and sufficient willingness to work together to find solutions. I don't think that's the case here. People here do want to be here enough to have weathered all the technical issues and such. But they don't, for various reasons, necessarily wish to behave nicely to each other. A lot of those reasons have to do with history. And a lot of the issues, perhaps, stem from the odd things that happen with communication on an online medium, which just get exacerbated over time, and eventually encrust over things, like angry emotional barnacles. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:37:49 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#a5cd679a-4ef6-440f-b647-3fbfb3cc8ef4 Shannon 2009-06-01T13:37:49Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7ec72c70-5aca-438f-a327-23849e375a24 << "Part of that comes from my desire to let the community establish its own code of conduct, but that laissez faire approach doesn't always work best." >> Yeah, that one almost never works out as well as one might like it to. :) It's going to be tough finding somebody who fits the qualifications of being here enough and also not belonging to one or another of the warring factions; and also be willing to take on the enormous burden of being hall monitor here without also being a control freak about it. Have you got anybody in mind, Shannon? Mon, 01 Jun 2009 10:46:20 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#7ec72c70-5aca-438f-a327-23849e375a24 Craig 2009-06-01T10:46:20Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#b1039142-a73a-46eb-8eaa-3fafafb0ac68 I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that you meant to respond to this message: http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#b7fde892-215e-45b8-95f5-fc6bf99415a1 Rather than this one: http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#2bcb3a81-64dc-40ad-9196-be51899b4692 That alone is one source of confusion, as we do not have the quote function. I'm almost positive you are not responding directly to me. There are three different settings: threaded | unthreaded | newest first I use "unthreaded". I try to post a response to the person/post that I am responding to if it is meant to be specific. There is a reason for this. In "unthreaded" and in "newest first" mode, there are links directly below the the topic title to show the "in response to" thread with a link. Are you aware of this? If I am trying to figure out who is talking to whom, I use the link. The link for your post shows that you are responding to my post. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:09:38 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#b1039142-a73a-46eb-8eaa-3fafafb0ac68 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T05:09:38Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c8847e5-4369-4e19-8ac9-466baa230f69 Yeah, the impartial and consistent thing is important. It would be a tricky combination, to have somebody active enough to have a solid sense of some of the historical dynamics, but impartial enough not to have a side or want to take one. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:44:14 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c8847e5-4369-4e19-8ac9-466baa230f69 Shannon 2009-06-01T04:44:14Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#2bcb3a81-64dc-40ad-9196-be51899b4692 Each TRIBE has it's own overlord. The moderator. He/she/they can choose a subject or topic, allow anyone or no one into the tribe for any or no reason. Anyone can be removed from a tribe by the moderator, for any or no reason. Any member of tribe.net that views/reads something on any tribe, whether or not they are a member of that tribe, have the options of ignoring it, enjoying it, hating it, reporting it. Obviously if the tribe is private, only members can read the text. Tribe.net NEVER has had the ability/manpower to view all tribe PM messages, profiles, blogs, posted threads and responses in all tribes. That is why it is up to each member to do what they (as an individual) feel is best. For instance, to report spammers and scammers, that I'm fairly sure none of us want. Leave the tribes if they do become messed up. Vote with your feet, with your membership. This tribe is about ideas. We can discuss those ideas, make suggestions on how they might work better or might not work at all. We can post links to other information. "Me too" posts are a waste. If folks don't have anything to add, other than "me too", don't bother. Because there is a reason that someone will agree, tell everyone WHY you agree. Or why you disagree. Sometimes it's all depending on WHO posts it. Like Shatter reposted an old suggestion of mine, and people who would not have responded otherwise DID respond...with something like a "me too" response. But not the first time. So they are then more agreeing with the poster, not the idea. The IDEA of some all-seeing tribal god(dess) is swell. But not possible. No one can be everywhere and read everything and fully understand how each of the participating members feels, and know exactly what the person's intent was. It's not going to happen. If there was such a person, they would be somewhere else, making much more money. In business or politics or the military or starting their own religion and not deciding the fate of a couple of tribers. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:30:08 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#2bcb3a81-64dc-40ad-9196-be51899b4692 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T04:30:08Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c2bf26f-4e82-4b56-9bb0-7ed3324638f3 http://faq.tribe.net/thread/3cf9561e-1afb-4083-8022-cedcb45e1e0b Our policies are for the protection of all members of Tribe's community. Accusations are commonplace on Tribe, some valid, many fabricated, some carefully staged. In every single case we have looked into we have found plenty of evidence of bad behavior on both sides. A uniform rule of intolerance for ill-considered speech would depopulate Tribe. There are people on Tribe who are "trolls" and trouble makers and generally irritating. We are willing to work to smooth out these issues on Tribe; we find that it is best to keep people subscribed as long as possible because it is absolutely impossible to block an individual's access to Tribe short of making Tribe a closed system without any privacy, and that is not the purpose of Tribe. Users that need such a system need a different system than Tribe. Users of Tribe must accept the limitations on mitigating the annoyance of such users on an open system that respects privacy and free speech such as Tribe. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:00:43 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#3c2bf26f-4e82-4b56-9bb0-7ed3324638f3 $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T04:00:43Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#b7fde892-215e-45b8-95f5-fc6bf99415a1 <<somebody who 1. spends time here interacting regularly, enough to get a sense of what some of the active users are like, and 2. clearly establishes and enforces the TOU.>> I'm totally for that especially if they remain impartial and consistent. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:59:54 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#b7fde892-215e-45b8-95f5-fc6bf99415a1 Xiomara 2009-06-01T03:59:54Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4ef97fa6-3fb8-4551-9b13-decd2fe25bf2 And I absolutely have no horse in this race. Jst a casual observer, let it be noted. Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:59:12 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4ef97fa6-3fb8-4551-9b13-decd2fe25bf2 B-b 2009-06-01T03:59:12Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e6e05ff8-2453-444e-8278-f4c70b804663 "And thou shall see, thee tribe overlord shall smite thee for thy profane words!" Just a bunch of attention whores with little to say aside from their personal differences going on for all eternity for all to see, washing their dirty laundry in public view, in the wrong venues. So of course it is wrong. But when someone who says they play by the rules like TRUE/Djarum, merely to appear more respectable in the average person's eyes, invades a hotbed of trolldom to take it over, thinking that to eradicate the homebase of such will stop the unwanted behavior, only causes them to range further afield. And of course it is, as I said, just another boring personal vendetta, often predicated on someone being rejected amorously. Seems pretty damn near the truth. But all the same, shouldn't be here. Now execute those dumbass troll threads! Including the BM one. Deliver the sting! Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:56:08 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#e6e05ff8-2453-444e-8278-f4c70b804663 B-b 2009-06-01T03:56:08Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9efed9fb-1792-4b47-b80b-fa3f0a6b99fa http://faq.tribe.net/thread/1d7c402a-b32f-4860-90db-6af278be8715 A fundamental principle of Tribe is that moderators get to create tribes for whatever they want and to manage them however they want. Some pick topics that are of interest to a lot of people and manage them in a way that many people appreciate and they can become quite large and take on a life of their own. Others are more narrowly focused. For any given topic of general interest, there are many tribes all approaching the subject in different ways, each with their own character. Any member is free to find the tribe that best suits them; if none do, they can create their own tribe and run it the way it should be run. In general, if a tribe member doesn't like a tribe or doesn't like the tone, tenor, subject matter, or content of the posts on a tribe, it is best to discuss that on the tribe. If the moderator is not receptive, the member should become moderator of their own tribe that is run right. Tribe moderators are the disciplinarians of their tribes. Sometimes this can be a tricky task and occasionally, like Tribe as a whole, it is hard to balance openness with excluding difficult people. There are some tools to manage this (making a tribe membership moderated or private instead of open to the public, for example) but the current tools are a compromise. When these tools fail or aren't appropriate, we can help. Supporting moderators is a top priority and if you're a moderator of a tribe of any size, if you have a question about or problem with your tribe, please contact us at modsupport@tribe.net Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:55:25 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#9efed9fb-1792-4b47-b80b-fa3f0a6b99fa $item.owner.firstName 2009-06-01T03:55:25Z http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4ba231b9-8167-4e5e-b83c-744af36b9677 The type of interpersonal issues that happen here aren't necessarily tribe-specific. They're actually pretty typical of any open-forum internet user community. I just read a post on Daily Kos, in which Kos addresses similar concerns, and proposes a solution: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/5/31/737141/-Your-new-community-overlord The part of Kos's post I find particular relevant to tribe is this: >>>The problem has always been manpower -- there are 300-600 diaries written every day, along with tens of thousands of comments. It is impossible for us to police that massive flow of information, much less try to understand the dynamics of the various flamewars usually raging on the site. >>>Not to mention, it's hard to uniformly enforce the rules if the rules themselves are lacking! The current rule book is not even an official document, but an FAQ maintained by outside community members without the benefit of this site's official assistance. Those volunteers update the rules in the FAQ whenever I make a proclamation on this site, but oftentimes those proclamations are little more than throwaway comments in response to a specific situation, without regard to broader ramifications of what I'm saying (or even if I'm contradicting myself with past edicts). So while the community craves a rulebook with clear delineation of unacceptable behavior, I've failed to provide. Part of that comes from my desire to let the community establish its own code of conduct, but that laissez faire approach doesn't always work best. tribe is a user community as well as a database. It's clear that there are now people dedicated to straightening out the messed up technical issues (thank you!!!!!). But it's less clear that there's a person whose job it is to actually deal with social issues that arise here---somebody who 1. spends time here interacting regularly, enough to get a sense of what some of the active users are like, and 2. clearly establishes and enforces the TOU. In my experience, administrators don't like enforcing TOU stuff. Somebody always gets mad and yells at them, and nobody likes to be yelled at. The result of this is often that either stuff is enforced randomly and arbitrarily, or not at all. Neither of these is good. In my experience also, user communities are pretty much largely ok with rules, as long as they are clear, fair, and consistently enforced. Like kids, I guess. Would it be possible, once the technical issues are stabilized once and for all, for NSA to have some sort of Community Overlord? Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:39:02 GMT http://brainstorm.tribe.net/thread/561f9a83-a9de-401a-89ed-b55fa9326720#4ba231b9-8167-4e5e-b83c-744af36b9677 Shannon 2009-06-01T03:39:02Z